Trusting God When the Waiting Is Hard | Frannie Fulton

In this episode, we sit down with Frannie Fulton — a mom, daycare provider, and youth pastor alongside her husband — to talk about what it looks like to trust God when the story isn’t finished yet.

Frannie shares her faith journey, how she met her husband, and the importance of slowing down to truly connect with God in everyday life. She also opens up about their three-year adoption journey filled with paperwork, unexpected setbacks, starting over, and the ongoing wait to be matched with a child.

This conversation is especially meaningful because Frannie’s plan and purpose story is still unfolding. It’s an honest look at what it means to hold onto faith when God’s purpose feels unclear and the waiting feels long.

If you’re in a season of waiting and wondering what God is doing, this episode is for you.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

What is up, everyone, and welcome to another week of the Plan and Purpose Podcast. I'm your host, Gabby, and I am here with Franny Fulton, who actually is the wife of my husband's youth pastor when he was in high school. So welcome to the podcast, Franny. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Um, first of all, let's just start with just telling a little bit about yourself. Um, what do you do for work and what are some joys in life right now for you?

SPEAKER_02 0:34

Um, okay, I like you said, I'm married to a youth pastor. So I am pretty involved in that with him. So that's a huge joy of mine. And but also aside from that, I am a daycare provider during the week or during the office hours, I should say. Um I do an in-home daycare with one of my very good friends. And then I am also a mom to four boys. So I just I drive around a lot and I clean up a lot and I cook a lot and I do all of the non-glamorous things for my kids, for other people's kids.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

That's kind of my what are the ages of your boys?

SPEAKER_02 1:17

12, 10, 8, and 4.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Okay. Yeah. You're busy. We're busy.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

I'm busy and I'm tired. Yeah. But it's okay. I can be tired.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

Um, so you said, like I said, like your husband, Eric, was Casey's youth pastor. Do you have any? I guess what was Casey like in high school since I didn't know him in high school.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

Um, he not much different than now. Um, as far as personality goes, he is very funny, uh, which you know. Yeah. And he just, and just like his brothers, they're all kind of in this way, in my opinion, is like they would subtly under their breath make a little joke.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

And so, you know, you don't always hear it unless you're sitting next to him. But in those moments, you're like, oh, I love this. This is very funny. You are very hilarious. Um, he's always loved candy and sugar. Uh, so that is not new, and you know that well. He just he has yes, he has one of my favorite stories of chipping a tooth.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

So I said, I think he actually just has to get a root canal here soon, too. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

So he just he loves sugar and he's just a lot of good, subtle humor, humor. And um, he's always had a very strong faith that has also not changed, um, and very sure of who he is in God, and that has always been evident to those of us around him. So he's been a joy to be around always.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

Yeah. Well, thank you for discipling him too, and it means a lot and has impacted our marriage um and all the things too. So very appreciative of you and your husband and pouring into him when he was younger. Yeah. And even now, like we all have game nights at your house. You do like young adult game nights and stuff, so pouring into the young adults. So thank you for doing that. It's fun.

SPEAKER_02 3:00

We it's purely selfish. We just we like games and we like people. And so you're willing to come over and play games. Yeah. So so please do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

Well, we love it. And um, before we begin, I guess have you always been a Christian um all your life? Or like walk us through kind of your faith journey with the Lord um from when you were young to now.

SPEAKER_02 3:22

Okay. Um No, that's it's a great question. Um, I I remember being very young, and I don't know who first told me the name Jesus or about God, but I have always believed. And uh I wasn't raised in a home that uh professed a faith in Christ per se. Um I from first grade to eighth grade, I did every Wednesday night go to the Catholic church to whatever they called their classes, and I was confirmed, but it was never we never went to church Sunday, and it wasn't something that was pushed in my house, but I always believed. Um, and I always loved going. And then as I got older, um, more towards the end of my junior high, uh, friends would invite me to their church for a weekend retreat or bring a friend night or whatever it may be. And I really just enjoyed all of it. And so um I actually really didn't even know the difference between denominations until I was much older. I didn't I didn't know. Uh, I just I went and your church was different than mine, and that's okay, and we all love Jesus. And then I when I was older, I was like, oh, there's significant differences, and um, this isn't about good or bad or whatever, but I just loved going to any church. And um, and then I just think it kind of evolved and grew. And in one church, I I learned a lot of facts and I memorized a lot of things. And in another another church, I heard about this love of Christ and I knew that I could have a relationship with him. And so it kind of just kept growing from there till I found my own niche in the spirit, if that makes sense. So um I think my early high school careers when I really subconsciously, I don't think I made a one-day decision of I'm following Christ now. But in that season of early high school, I kind of made that call and and just started following that or tried to follow that in my own walk, the walk of Christ.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

Yeah, yeah, so good. Um, when you so you went, you and your husband went to the same high school. Tell us a little bit about how you met the first time and then how you started dating, and now you're married.

SPEAKER_02 5:47

Okay. So we met in band class, um freshman year.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

What was your first impression of him? I guess when you first met.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

I don't remember having a first impression of him, truthfully.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

What was he like then?

SPEAKER_02 6:02

Um he was a nerd. And like we joke, and I I don't think I cared. I but like he'd wear like a pair of red sweatpants and a not quite the same color red sweatshirt, like miss, you know, and just and it have some kind of pun on it, and like he's really allergic to peanuts and peanut butter, and he had this shirt that was like a Reese's peanut butter cup, but instead of Reese's, it would say Jesus, and like he just he's funny. Um so he was nerdy, but I don't think I cared. I loved talking to him, and we'd actually talk on like AOL instant messenger, is what they had at the time, before that was before any social media existed. And we would talk and I'd say, Hey Eric, here's what's going on in my life, and he'd say, Hey, Franny, here's some scripture. And he would just feed me scripture all the time, and he had incredible faith, and he has his own story of really owning his faith. He does have a day where he remembers accepting Christ as a young age, and it stems from a really difficult medical situation he was in. And he would get to tell me his testimony, and I got to learn all about Jesus. And so, like, he's a very integral part actually of me. That was freshman year, when I kind of was going to different churches and exploring a relationship with Christ, and he was feeding me scripture and he actually gifted me a Bible, and his faith was so um speaking to me, and I I remember wanting faith like that. And that was a huge draw. And then, but I, you know, I lived this other life where I struggled with you know, body image, and I struggled with wanting to be liked, and I struggled with boys, and I acted on that, and it was not healthy, and it was not Christian. And um, so while I was trying to find Christ, I also was trying to find boys who liked me. And so it was a really weird thing to happen at the same time. Um, and he had the wisdom to not pursue me, uh, which was very good of him. Um, he knew I wasn't healthy for him, and that is true. I was not healthy, and I would have corrupted the heck out of him on purpose. It was ugly. Um, I my heart was really ugly towards myself and towards affection, yeah. If that makes sense. Yeah. And uh, so it was wise. So he cut ties, and at the time.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

So, did you want to pursue him? Did you like shoot your shot or at any point?

SPEAKER_02 8:40

Not necessarily, not uh if if I did, and I don't remember doing it, but if I would have, it would have been really um very sexual and it would have been very um inappropriate and not like a hey, should we get to know each other more and date? Not it wouldn't have been that way, it would have been very inappropriate if I did, and I might have because I did to a lot of people. Um, but he was like a hard no on any of that. Um but I remember being intrigued by him, and I didn't really care that he was nerdy. I loved his faith. Um, and so when he cut it off, he didn't tell me he was cutting this off. He ghosted me, which that's just funny looking back. Um, and I remember like, why are you looking at me like this in band class now? You look at me like I'm really annoying you, but I thought we were friends, and guess we're not friends anymore. And it really was, I didn't cry about it. Yeah, um, it just happened, and and that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:40

And what year was that of high school is that when he kind of that was probably the end of our freshman year.

SPEAKER_02 9:46

Okay, so fresh freshman year. It all was freshman year. And then I went the rest of my high school just not really even giving him a thought because we had went to a big high school. You lose contact with people, I didn't really think of it at and it wasn't like a steady relationship we were in that he had broken off. It was like your friends talk sometimes. Yeah, it was we never hung out, it was just so it wasn't much. Um, so he didn't weigh heavily on me. And then in college, um, by this time my journey with God had actually gotten much, much stronger, um, to where like Christ was the forefront of my heart, and that life of sexual sin was at least for the most part behind me. I still struggled, but it was more of an internal struggle that I battled with Christ and not one that I gave into a lot. So by the time I went to college, and then Eric and I just through happenstance and people bumped into each other again, I'm sold out for God. And I I I wanted nothing to do with that old self, and I was a much better person to bring home to mom. I still was very immature, in my opinion, looking back, but aren't we all?

SPEAKER_00 11:05

Yeah, you know, yeah. When you were in high school, so it was like after freshman year, and you said Eric was one kind of feeding you the scriptures and you were exploring different churches. What how did you go from like being curious to now being sold out? Like what kind of were you discipled? Were people pouring into you? I guess how did you kind of own that faith, or like what was the process of?

SPEAKER_02 11:27

That's a good question. Um, so I was discipled. Um, one of the churches that I was going to at the time, I was invited by a friend. And I really just I enjoyed it. I liked hearing about Jesus' love for me. So I'm like, I want to keep going back to this place. Um, so I went and to a point where like I became, I wouldn't say member of the church, but a member of the youth group. Yeah. And so I joined a small group within that. And I so I had small group leaders that were pouring into me, and that's where I gained new friends. And, you know, when you're in that environment, it's gonna take whole iron sharpens iron. Yeah, right. So I was discipled though with small group leaders, adult small group leaders, once I really started going there more permanently.

SPEAKER_00 12:20

Yeah, that's really cool. Just like even now, knowing like you are an active part of a youth ministry, your husband's a youth pastor, of like how much that youth ministry meant to you in your high school career, and like you've lived through it and know the impact that it can have on students and how you're able, like the Lord's taking your testimony and able to do that for other high schoolers who are in the same position. So that's really cool to like kind of take a pause and see how God has kind of worked through your life as well. Um when you got to college, did you were you intentional of like finding Christian community to surround yourself with? Um I guess yeah, to talk me through that and then when you bumped into Eric, sure.

SPEAKER_02 13:02

Um, yes, I it was very important to me to stay connected with Christ and to establish a Christian lifestyle, I should say. I had really no interest in like the college weekend scene, yeah. Um, which can be kind of isolating, truthfully.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

For sure.

SPEAKER_02 13:22

If you aren't interested, and um I I would get social anxiety on top of not wanting to drink alcohol. So it can be lonely. And so um my church that I grew up in, they had uh kind of a branch closer to my college town. So I went there. Um, so it wasn't even like a college town church, it was just a regular church. But I went and I um kind of got involved in that church. And but they were just married people with kids. It wasn't college kids, but that was okay. It was a comfort zone for me to be accepted there, and they weren't coming to me Friday night wanting to drink. So it was fine. Um, so weekends were hard in college, but that's just a kind of a trial you kind of have to go through when you're immersed in that world.

SPEAKER_00 14:19

And it's like your parents are no longer telling you what to do or like and they're not right there, yeah, to hold you accountable. So I feel like transitioning to freshman year is like a really test of it can be hard.

SPEAKER_02 14:32

Yeah, it can be really hard.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

Yeah, you need a good spiritual discipline going into it, but then also not care what other people think of you, um, like what the world thinks of you. And that was a challenge for me going from high school to college, finding my own faith, not my parents' faith. But then yeah, it was very lonely where all my friends would go out to bars and go drinking and dorm rooms, and I didn't want to be a part of that. And it was hard as like all my friends are making friends doing this. And like, where am I supposed to meet friends? And so, like, thinking about okay, what are the type of people I want to surround myself with, where are those people gonna be? Well, they're gonna be at the campus ministry events or they're going to be at I don't know, like intramurals or something. Like, and so like putting having to put yourself out there to be intentional, like you said, going to that church to be intentional to surround yourself with that Christian community. Um it's just like being intentional and having that discipline to say no to things.

SPEAKER_02 15:37

Yeah, and sometimes being okay with being lonely.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

And if that's part of it, then that's part of it.

SPEAKER_00 15:44

And we're called to be set apart.

SPEAKER_02 15:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

Um, and so like even like there's people that lived on my dorm and they had like um sock mirror bucket list, and I just remember like one of their bucket lists was like get Gabby to drink was on their bucket list, and I was just like, that's not gonna happen. And they knew like they knew I didn't drink, which is why I was on, but just like having that boundary before you're in the moment, too, of like, yeah, I'm not gonna drink. Because if you don't have that boundary and you get into a situation where they're pouring drinks and offer you one, like that's harder to say no, yeah, um, and explain too. So yeah. So then when did you meet? Did you meet him right away? Did you bump into Eric right away?

SPEAKER_02 16:24

It was actually our sophomore year of college. And it was so interesting. So I um there was a girl in my class or my sorority, I should say, um, who I I had heard of from high school. She didn't actually go to my high school, but I'd heard of her, and then she happened to be on my sorority. So we kind of clicked right away. And her boyfriend was in class with me, and I did go to high school with him. So it was like a weird connection where I knew I had known him, and so him and I classed together, and I actually needed to borrow a textbook from him. So he said, Okay, swing by my apartment, grab his textbook. I swing by his apartment, and Eric is his roommate.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

That's great.

SPEAKER_02 17:05

And so I just I'm going in to grab his textbook and leaving. I wasn't staying or anything, it was very pure. And Eric, who's a nerd still, is sitting on the couch and doesn't even see me come in. He's playing Mario Kart, not paying. I mean, you have to be focused, so you can't pay attention to who's walking in behind you. And so I take the book and Eric doesn't notice me, which I don't think anything of because I'm just taking a book and leave.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:34

But also, I hadn't talked to him for five years, and the last eye assumed he hated me. So I'm like, all right, well, Eric, I'm out. Like, I don't think a thing of it. And I guess when I leave, Nick was his name. The roommate's name is Nick. He says, Eric, I finally bring a girl over for you and you don't even pay attention.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

And so Eric's like So Nick was trying to play matchmaker.

SPEAKER_02 17:58

He wasn't intentional about it. I think he was just making a joke about a girl coming over. And Eric's like, who's the girl? He's like, Do you remember Franny from high school? Because we all went to high school together. And he's like, Are you kidding me? Franny from high school. He's like, So he at this point social media exists. So he sends me a message on Facebook and he's like, I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to ignore you. And again, I'm like, I don't care. I did you ignore me? You're playing Mario Kart. Like, you can't look. You're busy in a race. I just do it not like my feelings were hurt. I thought nothing of it. And um, and actually at the time, I had been in a very serious relationship for about four years, uh, which it was a good thing at the start because it catapulted my relationship with Christ because he was from a very Christ-centered family. His mom worked at church, they saved me a seat every Sunday. It was a really good thing. Um, but then it turned into like I'm like sold out for Christ, and he kind of wanted to go live more of the college life, and it was a battle, and by this point it was really unhealthy. And we were at the tail end of it, and Eric kind of comes back into the picture, and at some point the girl in my sorority who's dating Eric's roommate is like, come hang out with us. We have a whole whole group of friends hanging out, and I'm like, Okay, I'm like, but Eric was the only one, there were a lot of boys in my past, and I'm not proud of that, but there I would say 99.9% of them, there was some kind of physical aspect to the drive of that relationship, except Eric. Never once. It was purely spiritual.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

He gave me a Bible, he would read me scripture, and when I became an unhealthy temptation, he cut that off. And I remember telling her, if he's nice to me at all, there's no way my current relationship is gonna last because he is not nice to me.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

And I walked into this apartment, and Eric is beaming, and he's like, Franny, I'm so glad you're here, and walks up to me and gives me a massive hug. And I'm like, Oh, I'm toast. All right. And so that's just, and we talked for a long time, and I I didn't want to be impure, and I was still in this relationship. It was so ugly at the end. Like, we never talked.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

We, I mean, we did he go to Iowa State?

SPEAKER_02 20:18

He did go to Iowa State, and I mean, we'd try, but we fought every conversation. We didn't enjoy spending time together. We all we did was fight. We had broken up so many times in the last several months. So, I mean, it was at the tail end, and I I would try to tell myself, I'm not breaking up with him for Eric. That wouldn't be a nice thing to do. Uh, but it probably is what I did, if I were honest. Uh, but it needed to end in anyway, and um, so but it's not like Eric and I started dating the next day. I told him, and he's like, Well, it sounds like you need a break, so you go and you spend some time in prayer with God.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

And then I mean, he just was very mature, like very mature the whole time, yes.

SPEAKER_02 20:58

So I uh it wasn't much longer after that because I Michelle, my um sorority sister, kept inviting me to friend hangouts, and so I went and so I hung out with all of them as friends, and but Eric and I kind of just you know our friend hangouts would turn into just me and Eric hangouts, not it didn't take very long, and I knew very early on, I was like, Well, this is it.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

So that's like so cool. Like, did he know meeting you that second time at college that your faith had like catapulted and now you're on fire for the Lord?

SPEAKER_02 21:33

No, he didn't. Um, actually, when he in his message to me online, he said, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to ignore you. And I said, That's okay. And he said, Hey, how's your relationship with Jesus? That's his next question. And I said, I love Jesus. And I just went into it and he's like, Wow, that's really neat. And so uh, we didn't keep talking because you cross boundaries it it really easily. So we didn't really keep talking. Um, But he did know by the time I was available emotionally, he knew where my heart was towards God. And so it was a good thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

That's just like a testament of God's timing, too. Of like, had you had dated freshman year of high school, it probably would have been ugly. Like you're not equally yoked.

SPEAKER_02 22:21

Um, and I think I would have very purposefully drawn him into sin. Yes. And that would have been so bad for his walk with Christ as well. And so yeah, it ended up being really neat.

SPEAKER_00 22:33

Technically, you were in a waiting season, but the Lord, and I just talked about this on a different podcast that we did, but it's like, I don't love the term waiting season, but it's like a preparation season. Where the Lord, like, there's you're not waiting, like, I feel like with waiting, it's like, oh, I'm just wasting away, kind of like waiting for something to happen. Where the Lord uses those seasons of waiting to prepare you, and like kind of like what he did with even that relationship, even you're like, I love how you're like your outlook. It's like it wasn't wasted, it wasn't four years wasted, it was it prepared you and like brought you to church and your faith, and then catapulted your faith, and then realized towards the end of it, like this isn't the relationship I want. And but like you became so on fire for the Lord, and then at that same time, when you're on fire for the Lord, Eric's on fire for the Lord, he brings you both together to be on fire for the Lord together, um, which is super cool. Um, so when did you officially start dating Eric?

SPEAKER_02 23:32

Um, it was by the end of our sophomore year um that we officially started dating. We were hanging out, like I said, as friends, and we kind of got to a point where um it was like, well, there's clearly feelings. So we either make this official and date, or we cut it off. Because there's no point in drawing something out if you're not going to like seek out a marriage or honor God within that. And like I'm neither of us were in dating for fun. Like we were in it for marriage. Um, and it but I was like, I just got out of a four-year relationship. I don't think I should. I don't think that's wise, but my heart really wanted to. And I remember calling my mom and like, mom, I don't know what to do with this. And I think she is great. I love my mom, but she essentially said, You're young, just go for it. And I don't know that that's wisdom from God. Um, I wouldn't claim that to be. And I think she was thinking this is a rebound, it won't be a long-lasting relationship, but whatever, you'll be fine. Well, I married my rebound, so I just, if that's what it was, it lasted. And so I essentially called him and I was like, okay, fine, we can date. And it wasn't romantic or anything at all. And yeah, it was yeah, kind of anticlimactic the way it all happened. But that was by the end of sophomore year, and he was very, very serious about using the L word, which I had used a thousand times, you know, because I was boy crazy. And I was also in a very serious relationship before him. So I had used that and I had said that, and he said, I will never use it until I use it to my wife. And he said, he said, I very much think if you're going to say that, you mean it, and you mean it for life. And so he was very serious. And I said it first, I don't remember how long, yeah, months, a few months later, maybe. I was very nervous to tell him because I knew his thoughts. And I so I was nervous and I was shaking, and he's like, just say it. He knew what I was gonna say, and I was like, I love you. And he said, Well, you know my feelings about this, right? And I said, Yeah. He's like, So you'd be ready to marry me. I'm like, Yep. And he's like, tomorrow, you'd be ready tomorrow. And I had to swallow like feelings, like thinking, man, my mom would be so mad if I got married tomorrow, you know. But I but in my heart, I was like, Yes, that's how much I feel for you. And he actually didn't even tell me again for I don't know, several weeks to a month or so later, which I was grateful for because I didn't want him to tell me in a dishonest moment.

SPEAKER_00 26:30

You want him to mean it.

SPEAKER_02 26:31

I wanted him to mean it. And it didn't hurt my feelings that he didn't say it because I knew how strongly he felt about using that word. But when he did say it, I said, Great, you're ready to marry me. So from then it was like, when's this happening? Let's let's get married. So we got engaged like less than a year later.

SPEAKER_00 26:48

So I love that. That's so sweet. Um, because you talked about in high school, just like everything with relationships was kind of sexual with you. How did you establish healthy boundaries with Eric when you're dating him? To if that, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:03

Yeah, that's a great question. It's hard. And I think healthy boundaries are important to set, but they have to first be set within yourself with Christ.

SPEAKER_01 27:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:14

And not that we should be flippantly making promises to God that we don't mean, but I think it is important to make promises to God that we do mean. I God is a God of covenants and to say, I'm not doing this. And that was a battle, and it it's not easy. And like real boundaries, you know, we're in college and you can make grown-up decisions. So we like had to set like no sleepovers. No, you know, like we always go home at the end of the night and things, um, and we ideally weren't pushing our boundaries to 2 30 in the morning at night, too. You know, where it's like, well, it's not technically a sleepover. Well, you know, so we did set boundaries with each other, but first with Christ, and we um, and it got hard. I mean, even like up to weeks before our wedding, we're like, man, we're getting married in two weeks. Yeah, we basically already married. Why? But no, no, let's wait. Let's, you know, and I'm not saying that we were perfect, um, but we never stopped seeking and trying. And gosh, I would even say, like, me personally, I know the struggle for me got less and less and less the closer I even got to marriage because I was still continuing to draw nearer to Christ. And I just wanted to honor him in that.

SPEAKER_00 28:35

So good. I think too, just like some people just set boundaries to set them without a why behind it. Like, and that helped really with Casey and I with our boundaries, too, of like knowing like a lot of people like, oh, I'm waiting for marriage, but then they're like, Okay, why? Like, why are you waiting for marriage? And it's like using scripture to point like it's what God intended for it to be. And even we would read like devotions together, and there'd be like statistics of like marriages and like percentages and marriages of like if you live together before marriage, like the percentage of getting a divorce or things like that, versus if you wait until and so it was just like that is our why, like it's God honoring, it's what God intended, and we want to wait, and we want what's best for our marriage. And so that was like it wasn't just a boundary, it was like, what's the why behind it? Um, as well.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

So that helped us too with yeah, it's hard, it is hard, it's really hard, but I think it's so important, and I think not only for single or dating or engaged, but also for married people, Christ still is supposed to be our number one priority, yeah. Not in we are a cord of three strands, but also I'm in Christ first, even before that. So it has to be in a God-honoring intention and not just uh to look Christian, yes, yeah, or anything like that, or because this is what Christians normally do, or the boundary that is expected to be set of me, but you have to want God, yes, that's so good. It's like the yeah, the why behind the boundaries, no matter the season of a relationship, but even any season of life, it it's it's gotta come down to well, I I my focus is on God, and so if this is the direction I feel God pulling me, that's the direction I will go.

SPEAKER_00 30:30

Yeah, that's so good. That's so good. So thank you for sharing, and that's a fun story of hearing how you and Eric met. So then you guys got married. When did you guys get married?

SPEAKER_02 30:40

Um, January 2011.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

Okay, was that like directly after college?

SPEAKER_02 30:44

Yes, we had graduated in December, so it was like six weeks later we got married.

SPEAKER_00 30:49

Planning a wedding and graduating all at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 30:51

It's okay. We got married about six months before Pinterest came out. Oh, and weddings were much simpler and not homemade. Nothing was homemade. And I mean, we went to our hotel, everything you got married in a church back then still, and then you have a reception at a hotel. That's what everyone kind of did. And I remember going to the hotel and being like, what centerpieces do you offer for free? And that's what they offered. And I said, That's great. We'll take those those few little mirrors. I don't, it was very minimal as far as like we didn't create a lot on our own. And but there wasn't a lot of like online inspiration to compare. I think the comparison there really wasn't. And so it wasn't as stressful as probably a modern wedding was. Family, who's invited, and who's yes, opinions are hard to navigate, uh, but we made it work.

SPEAKER_00 31:52

Yeah. Um, so then you got married right after college. And then how did you end up in Winnerset, Iowa?

SPEAKER_02 31:59

Um, well, um, at some point, Eric started applying for churches. He studied business because he was actually counseled to study business when he knew he wanted to go into ministry because churches are run like businesses. And these pastors that he knew growing up, they said, you don't want to be surprised by this. You will get there with ministry. You'll be in ministry, uh, you'll be in churches. So as far as that part goes, God will carry you. But you don't want to be surprised when you go into a church, and it turns out there's a lot of other, I don't want to say secular parts to it because it's all of God, but there's money, there's personnel, there's a lot of other things. So they counseled him to study business, and he did. That's why he went to Iowa State. And but always with a vision of being in ministry. It was he was never gonna go into IT like what he studied.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

I cannot see him doing that.

SPEAKER_02 33:00

Yeah, he is a computer nerd, I would say. He loves computers, and um and that's what he studied, but it was never gonna be, he always wanted to do ministry. And um, so senior year, he applied to probably about a dozen churches all around the country, and only one called him back. And that was in Winterset. And actually, he didn't actually see a job opening online. Someone approached him and said, Hey, I'm from Winterset. Will you apply for this? And so it must have been of the Lord. Um why we ended up there.

SPEAKER_00 33:33

It was like opening that door. That's that only like that was the only one.

SPEAKER_02 33:37

That was it of the whole country that called him back. So that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:42

So that was like right after you got married, you moved to Winterset.

SPEAKER_02 33:45

Yes, we drove home from our honeymoon to our new place in Winterset, our new apartment together. So it was immediate.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

And you've been there ever since.

SPEAKER_02 33:53

15 years. Wow. Yeah.

unknown 33:55

15 years.

SPEAKER_02 33:56

So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

So what is it like? Because I know he's youth pastor, being a wife of youth pastor, how does that, I guess, affect your everyday life? Um, I know, like right before this, you even like got coffee with a student and stuff like that. Um, I guess what does that look like in your life?

SPEAKER_02 34:13

Uh, that's a really good question. Truthfully, I don't know any different.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

True.

SPEAKER_02 34:17

Because this is all we've ever done.

SPEAKER_00 34:19

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 34:20

And we we truly got into ministry together. And even in when Eric was interviewing at this church, he said, Well, you're getting my wife too, because she has a heart for youth ministry. So it was never like Eric's a pastor and I'm along for the ride only. It was Eric and Franny are the youth workers of the church. Um, and that is not to glorify myself, but just like I've always been very much in the middle of it with him. Um, so it's never been weird at all. Um, and we were with high schoolers long before we ever had our own children. So they just kind of have joined our family, and now our kids love high schoolers and and they have high school heroes that play the sports and they love to cheer them on, and they come to our house and they goof around with our kids. And that's just always been part of it. Our kids are very used to us having meetings and Bible studies with teenagers. And yeah, like I had coffee with who isn't even a current student, but a previous student who's now in college, but you know, sometimes that it lingers and that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

Discipleship, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:30

Ministry, yeah. There's there doesn't need to be a hard line at graduation, you know.

SPEAKER_00 35:34

Yeah, and I love youth ministry too. Like I'm not a pastor, but I've served ever since I was out of high school, and they just have a special, just like pouring into the next generation. Um, so what are some joys of being involved in youth ministry?

SPEAKER_02 35:48

The biggest joy is is absolutely watching somebody own their relationship with Christ. And sometimes you see a student or meet a new student and you can see it right away. And then sometimes you don't, but you get to watch it evolve, and it can be hard because in that you're watching them sin and you're watching them deal with a temptation to not follow Christ. And sometimes you don't even see it until much later, and you might know, I really don't think I had much to do with this, but you still get to be a witness to it, and that is that will never stop being the biggest story is is watching the kingdom expand in young people.

SPEAKER_00 36:30

Yeah, yeah, and God loves young people. You've seen young people like I love the verse, like, do not let others look down on you because you are young. Um, but be an example. That's like one of my favorite verses. And then, like, even Jesus' disciples were young. And yeah, I just have a heart for the young, the next generation. Something you might not know is that the Plan and Purpose podcast actually grew out of a family business and ministry called Jesus Design Co. It's a company that I'm a part of with my mother-in-law and sisters-in-law, and our heart behind it is simple. We want to create products that help people keep Jesus at the center of their everyday lives. From Christian coffee table books to jewelry, Bibles, notebooks, and pens, everything we make is designed to encourage faith and spark meaningful conversations. Our clothing line is called on purpose, which includes a hoodie and hat with that phrase on them. Something that fits perfectly with the heart behind this podcast. And the reminder that we are all living out God's plan and purpose, and that we are created on purpose and for a purpose. If you want to check it out, you can use my code Gabby10. That is G-A-B-B-I, all capitals, and the number 1010 to get 10% off your entire purchase on a one-time order at Jesus Designco.com. Okay, so Sims Ministry is a lot of like you pouring out into the next generation, especially with youth ministry. Um, what are some rhythms or habits that help keep you spiritually healthy so that you can pour out of a full cup rather than an empty one?

SPEAKER_02 38:08

Um, good question. Okay, so I think that um doing ministry has to be an outpouring of what you already do with Christ on your own. Um I don't think I could give to those students if I were not receiving from the Spirit daily. Um, so I try to connect with the Lord all throughout my day. I have really purposeful, um quiet time. I'm learning the art of meditative prayer. Um, and I just I'm trying to seek him always, and not for the purpose only of ministering, but to be near him, um, knowing it will overflow. And I know I have actually seen fruit of that. I've had a lot of girls, high school girls, say, Wow, I can tell you really just love Jesus. I can tell you're really passionate, you get really excited about the Bible. And that's just me talking to them. And that's just an overflow of the spirit. That's not something that you can conjure up. And I don't always do that perfectly, or sometimes I don't do it well. So there is a lot of purposeful prayer of God. I'm tired today. Can you help me to have an energy to love these girls well? I don't want them to think I don't want to be here because I'm tired.

SPEAKER_01 39:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:38

Or yeah, if something's going on at home, if my kids are sick or if we're stressed about X, Y, and Z, I don't want that to show when I'm in a ministry moment. I want to be fully present with them. And so I do have to rely on God in prep right before ministry. Um, and even sometimes, which this isn't a fun thing to say, but it's true for all people who've done ministry. There are people that are really hard to minister to at sometimes or kids that are hard to love. Um, whether they're resistant to it or who knows what reason it is, and or even if it's my own fault because I am fallen and I'm tired and I'm feeling selfish that day, there are times where I have to pray, God, I can't love them right now. But you can. Can you move through me? Can you help me to love these kids today? Because I know in my power it's not there, but it should be there. So, and when I tell you, he answers those things in a snap. I think when you really submit your heart to him and want to glorify him, he's like, Yes, I want you to glorify me too. So let's do this, let's let's work alongside this. Um so I would say that just staying connected with God all the time, to be connected, but also in in situations where you know you're weak, pray on that specifically, and God will answer that and he'll he'll draw near to you and help you to pour out into these kids.

SPEAKER_00 41:04

That's so good. I feel like a lot of times with like youth too, it's like usually right after a full day of work and you're like tired when you go in, especially me. Like I'm a teacher and I'm like, oh, I'm tired. But like on the way, I'm like, okay, give me energy, God, give me supernatural energy to be able to pour out um into these kids. And then even like we use the term like make sure you don't like bleed onto them. So kind of like you said, like help me to like keep all my like stresses at bay, and so that I can pour into them as well. Um, I am curious. I always love hearing people's just like rhythms that they do, just even to get ideas for myself of like, ooh, I want to try that. Um, what have been some like spiritual rhythms that you've really enjoyed doing um recently? Like just like your quiet time with the Lord. What does that look like?

SPEAKER_02 41:54

Um, well, shameless plug. Um, I actually have found this. There's an app I used, which is so goofy because I'm also on this journey of unplugging, but there's an app I use and it's called Lectio 365. And it takes you on a journey of meditative prayer and it it goes very slowly on purpose through prayer and then scripture and then prayer and then scripture. And a lot of times it will repeat this scripture or a prayer, and every day there's a morning and a noon and an evening one. So, and they're really good. The morning one is maybe usually 10 minutes long, the midday is five minutes long, and the evening ones maybe it's somewhere between five to ten minutes long, but just um to guide you through, like Lord, quiet my soul to meet with you, and then it will give you scripture that reminds your soul to be quiet, to meet with God because God is near.

SPEAKER_00 42:57

I love how it's three times a day. It's not just like the so like maybe something happens after your morning, and then it's just like a reminder to get plugged in again and like connected to God to get you through the next part. That's really cool. What was the Lectio Lectio L-E-C-T-I-O 365?

unknown 43:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 43:14

It's been so good for me, and it has helped me actually in my other Bible reading times to slow down. And you know, we have times where I really want to read the whole Bible in a year. So that is just reading, reading, reading, reading. But there are other times where you're like, I'm gonna open up and I'm just gonna sit with this. And it is helped me to slow down and just sit with something, and then it kind of has accidentally created this pattern of taking a deep breath and asking the spirit, please help me to recenter my scattered senses upon the presence of God. That's something it says every day to recenter my scattered senses upon the presence of God. And I find myself wanted. Yes. Oh, yes, Lord, help me to do that. You know, and it's just been a really that app has been good, but in general, slowing down has been huge in my kind of walk and in my prayer life and scripture reading the last several months.

SPEAKER_00 44:13

How have you I feel like because slowing down is very countercultural? Like I was like, oh, go, go, go, go, go, especially in the Western hemisphere like our world today. Um, jam-pack your schedules. I guess what are some things that you purposefully do to slow down um to connect with God?

SPEAKER_02 44:33

Um one thing I do is I wake up very early because I want to maximize my time with the Lord. So I get up really early in the morning so I can slowly have a devotional, read tons of scripture if I want, or sit in a lot of prayer if that's what the day calls. Um, but I I get up, I get myself ready for the day, and I just sit and I'm just with the Lord for as long as I need to be until my kids get up. It but then by the time they're up, I've had a lot of time with God in prayer. I've prayed over all of them in the day, and I've thanked God for things, and I've but that's helped me to start a routine of, oh, it's okay. We're just gonna go to the next thing now, but I don't have to rush to it. And then there's no guilt of missing it. Um, but I would say putting my phone away has helped my mind to slow down a lot. It to be present in the moment. There are times where you have to get over boredom, but I think that's mostly our brains are so used to constant stimulation for sure scrolling and new images every second that when we stop that, it there's a curve there. It's hard to get used to, but I think it if we get used to it, and I'm still getting used to it, but I think it will help our mind to stay centered on God and to not just constantly be fighting that urge to see the next thing.

SPEAKER_00 46:15

That is like such a good point, too. Cause even like as a teacher, even kids, like they don't know how to be bored. Like, as soon as they're done with something, they like immediately goof off or need to do something else. And it's impossible if I just say, just wait for the next, like till everyone's done, just sit and wait. I always have to give them something to do, otherwise, behaviors are out the window. And even like Casey and I, like slowing down, um, we like were in a small group and they challenged us to like wait and and to silence. I think it was like on silence, so silence the noise. So go 24 hours without your phone. And like for me, I'm like, oh, I'm not like an iPad kid, like I could do that, that's fine. And it was a lot harder than we thought it was. And just even being bored, like we are waiting in a parking lot to meet someone for dinner, and we don't have our phones. And usually we don't realize it, but usually we just like scroll like on social media or TikToks or reels, and we're really sitting there and we're like, what do we do to pass the time? Yeah, we're bored. And we ended up just like finding a ball in my car and just like throwing it and just talking as we're throwing it, but like that was like a really realize big realization of we are always doing something and we never slow down, silence the noise. And when you do silence the noise, that's when you can hear from God the most. It's like turn on the radio waves of the Holy Spirit rather than so that's so good. So yeah. Um, so kind of to change the subject, but you and your husband have been on an adoption journey. And I know when I asked you to do the podcast, I usually ask all my guests who are on, like, do you have a story where you had a plan? Plan did not go according to what you thought it would look like, and where are you seeing God in the midst of it or where have you? And the first thing you texted back was like our adoption process. Um, so walk us through what this journey looked like um for you in this season.

SPEAKER_02 48:23

Yeah, well, um, we've always had hearts for adoption. We made the decision before I think we even were engaged that we said, if we ever get married, we're adopting. And that's about as quick as the conversation went. And we just we both agreed and we moved on, and we never it wasn't it wasn't ever a discussion, as if, like, you know, when people grow up and get married and have kids, well, we were gonna get married and have kids and adopt. It was just it was part of of our future. Um, that's how automatic it was to both of us. So that was a really easy discussion, and so it was kind of always part of our hope, I should say. When we got married, um, we have four kids, biological kids, and that was a great journey, and that's a huge blessing to us. And after our fourth, we knew we were going to be done. Um, and so it at some point after that, um, he was uh not quite to our youngest. Um, we had about six months prior moved into a bigger house that we bought for adopting. We knew we wanted to add a fifth child, so we needed a bigger house. So we were in the house, we knew we had all of our kids, we had been in prayer over it for years, and I don't remember how one of us, I think I saw it first, but I don't remember how I came across it. But a little boy up for adoption, a real boy up for adoption, and we read his tiny little snippet of information, and we both were like, Yeah, I think we could, I think we could fit him in here, you know. So we just clicked, are you interested? And so it kind of got us with an agency. Um, come to find out that little boy was from South Africa. And to adopt from South Africa, you have to have residency there for at least, I want to say six months. Oh, wow. Which we don't and will never have. Um, we we do not have remote jobs. Yeah, we can't afford that. We're not moving our kids for a temporary, we just it's not in the cards for us. But it kind of uh lit a light in us, like, oh, is it time? Are we ready? Or is this where God is leading us? So we're just like, well, let's just click the next thing, let's just make the next phone call to the agency and just see where this all leads. And it just kind of started from there. Um, and so when we first got connected with our agency, the first thing you do is you pick a country. You can't just adopt from anywhere in the world. You have to pick a country. And through prayer and a lot of guidance from God, but also looking at who each of these countries will adopt to and what like what we're willing to do, like the travel time, for example, it kind of gets dwindled down. And we didn't qualify for most of the world because we have too many kids. Um, but there are other little factors that took us out of other random countries. Eric has an eye condition, so we can't adopt from Vietnam, I think, and just things like that. It's goofy, but it dwindles it down, and we had a small pool of countries we could choose from, and one of them was Haiti, which um Haiti had actually been put on my heart when um not our youngest, our second youngest was actually an infant. I was in the shower, and I don't even know if I was praying over adoption or what, but I remember specifically Haiti being put on my heart, and I asked God, what is this? Is this adoption? I have a four-month-old baby, and we weren't even done having babies. I didn't know that, but we weren't. Yeah. Um, so I was like, what, why is this on my heart? So we just kind of let it sit there and we prayed over it periodically for the next several years until adoption came about. And when Haiti was one of our little countries that we were qualified to adopt from, um we prayed over it. I told Eric he could have, I was like, you have this choice. I I'm I can't make the call because I'm emotional and Haiti's been on my heart. So I know I can't make an unbiased decision. You can do this, and I trust you. And he prayed over it, and then he actually came back and said, I do think we should go to Haiti. So we were on that journey um for years, actually. And the thing is with Haiti is that uh it's a really dangerous place. They have a lot of extreme gang violence and a lot of extreme poverty. Um, and they also, as far as adoption goes, they aren't exactly up to date with technology, a lot of pen and paper stuff, not computer stuff. Very meticulous. It will it takes a long time then because you know, instead of emailing your documents, you mail them overseas. And so it just things take a long time in Haiti. But while we were in that process, um, the gang of Haiti, this is almost like a movie. They they uh kind of banded together and staged a massive jailbreak. And they all broke out of jail and took over the police station, hospitals, uh, the whole capital city. There was not really a safe neighborhood, a safe place. People were running from building to building to kind of have shelter, and there's car fires everywhere. They took over the airports, um, the seaports, everything no one could get in or out. It was so, so dangerous, and it still is. It's there's a lot of corruption there. Um, like at the time, the the head honcho of all of these gangs, well, he was a retired police officer. I mean, they've infiltrated police, they've infiltrated everyone that's supposed to be safe. Um, and it got to a point where, you know, like they would pillage built buildings and orphanages would take kids from place to place to place to keep the kids safe, and um, or paperwork would get scattered. And so our agency actually made the decision. They said, you know, we can't guarantee a safe adoption for these kids anymore. Uh, we don't know where their paperwork is, we don't know their story, and there's a real risk of child trafficking if you can't guarantee safety of children in the process. And they said, it's just too risky. And also, they can't guarantee safety of their employees or families that want to go get children. Um, Americans were targeted. Um, anyone with white skin was in more danger because they knew they were outsiders and the American embassy was getting bombed. It just wasn't safe. So our agency made the decision to leave Haiti, which meant we had no choice but to stop trying to adopt from there.

SPEAKER_00 55:37

And how long had you been working with them?

SPEAKER_02 55:40

Like how many year and a half, two years maybe, um, that we had been kind of you were pretty close, weren't you? Or you had all the paperwork done? Yes. So they Haiti had an extensive list of documents they wanted from us. And like I said, everything had to be mailed. So we had to have paper documents of every marriage birth certificate, um, physicals from the doctor, um just everything and just everything that we spend money on. We had to have documents from that. We also had to have letters from our banker, our tax person, our doctors, our friends, our pastor at our church. Everyone had to write letters. Every letter had to be notarized, everything had to be translated. Every, it was just, it's a lot. Pay Haiti had a lot of paperwork and it was really hard. And we had just gotten to the end where the next step was translation. Um, but we had taken it got took a year and a half to get all these documents compiled, I guess, into a file. And we were probably weeks away from being deadlocked in Haiti and paying a really big fine that would have finalized this is our decision. We can't go back um when this happened. So, in a way, it was the timing of it was a blessing because we weren't deadlocked, so we can still go forward with adoption. We just couldn't in Haiti anymore. And so that was really hard for our family. We have we know that we are secure, and I'm super blessed that my kids are safe and we do feel like God wants us to adopt. And so we aren't worried about that, but there was a real grief for the kids of Haiti that we had been praying for for years. Um, and we knew it was dangerous. There's so much poverty and there's so much violence, and they practice voodoo. And so there's just a lot of evil there, and now none of those kids are gonna get out. And I'm not saying none ever, but not as many as what it makes it harder, yeah. Did and we just wanted to save one, and we weren't going to, and that was really hard for us, and our agency was like, Well, you're gonna have to, if you want to move forward, let us know what country you want to go to. Let's talk about this again. And we were like, we need a minute because we're agreeing this, it was really hard. Um, but we just continued to pray over it and went back to our little pool of countries, and we were led. We actually had two countries after that we could choose from, and one of them was uh, I think one of the most expensive countries in the world to adopt from. Um, and I can't tell you all the reasons why countries their agency fees maybe are just more expensive, but this country also required a lot of travel, um, more than one trip for both parents. Uh so that was a lot. And in the other country, significantly less expensive. And not that money is all of it, but money is not nothing. And it does matter, and we have to be wise in this. Unrealistic. Like what can yeah, what can we do? And so this the other location, um significantly less money. However, they cook everything with peanuts, and my husband is deathly allergic to peanuts. So it was when we travel, can he travel there safely? Can he survive this trip? So it was kind of like, what are we gonna, which are we gonna risk? Um, so again, I told Eric, I said, I think you should pray over this because I don't worry about money ever, and I will survive the trip.

SPEAKER_00 59:38

You don't worry about allergies or money.

SPEAKER_02 59:40

So I'm like, I as far as my personal self goes, there's a lot less risk for me. I said, you pray over this. I trust you. And he did, and he sought a lot of counsel um and counsel from multiple people from the agency on what to do. And after prayer, he came back and said, I think we should go to Hong Kong. And that's the place that has peanuts. Um, so hopefully we'll get matched with a child from Hong Kong. And when that happens, there will be a whole nother element of prayer and anticipation of getting through that. The peanut allergy after the wait is over, then we still have a big hurdle to get to get through. But we've read a lot of blogs on how to do that, so hopefully we'll be prepared.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:28

Yeah, yeah. Well, that's super cool. Just like one, how you just have looked like a lot of people could say, Oh, I'm done, like with adoption. Like, oh, that's a closed door. Like, Lord, I'm done. Like when Haiti said we have to pull out, but like even like having the mindset of like that, actually, I'm glad the timing happened. Like, it's so sad, but that you weren't deadlocked into it, so that there is another opportunity. And I think you do such a great job of, and it's just a perfect picture of what marriage is like, too. It's like you're a team, you both pray about it together, pray about it separately, also come back together and make that decision. And you've done that, like you've mentioned that multiple times. Like that's how you make that decision. So now that you have decided on Hong Kong, what has that process been like?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:19

Um, it's been interesting. Um, so we essentially had to start over on paperwork. So everything we did for Haiti, for the most part, we just had to set aside and and just we got really good practice on paperwork in that season. But so we had to start over. Uh, but we went so fast. We said, we've already been through this paperwork, we don't want to keep doing it. Let's get it done with. Um, so we worked very hard, and that is truthfully my least favorite part is all the paperwork. It's it's not something you can sit down in the night and just do. It takes weeks or months to do some of these documents that they want. But so we did that. Um, it took us probably about six months to finish. Uh, and once you're done, that's called being homestudy approved. Uh to say our agency says this family has what it takes. They would be a good fit for a child. Um, they will be able to handle it. They do have the resources, and here they are, and here's us presenting them. So you have to get home state approved um by your agency, which we did. The next step was to be approved by American immigration, which we have, and then to be approved by your country that you want to adopt from, which is Hong Kong, which we have been approved by Hong Kong as well. So once all that happens, uh you just kind of wait. Um, so the way Hong Kong works is they work with a lot of agencies. And so what they do is when they get a child um that is up for international adoption, they send that child's file to all the agencies they work with, and their agencies look at their families that they know very well, and they say, hmm, I think the Fulton family might match really well with this kiddo. And so then we look at the file and we say, Yes, let's pursue him or her. And so then our agency kind of presents us to Hong Kong. So it's not that they have all their kids and all their families, and it's like a difficult matching game. They will they have a matching panel, um, I think once a month, and they look at the kiddos that are up for adoption who have families that want to adopt them. And so when that happens, we might be the only family trying to adopt a certain child, or it could be in a small pool of families, all of them very qualified to adopt that exact child. Um, we have had that happen twice. Um, actually, when we when we became homestead approved, the very next day our agency said, We think we have a child for you. And so we looked at the file and uh we said yes. And we they put our name in the hat, basically, which is a very light way of putting what of saying what is happening. And they said, It'll be about four weeks, and then you'll find out if you got this child or not. And so we're like, four weeks, that seems like a long time. Um, it was 10 weeks later. Wow, we found out, and we found out that it was a no. Um, and then so you just go back into waiting. Um, we did hear, you know, so kind of whoever from Hong Kong to say they said the Fulton family looks so great. The other family had the dad was a heart doctor, and this kiddo had been born with a heart problem. Uh, so I you're not gonna be that's great. And and truthfully, our hearts were prepared for that. They, our agency did such a good job of of kind of preparing us. You might not get this first or second or third child, and that's normal. So it at any point, you have to be ready to either take them in as your child, and I'm gonna love you forever, or I'm gonna let go of you forever. And it's a weird heart dynamic to be ready, but also they say guard your heart, and you really do have to. Um, but we were so happy for that little, it was a little boy, and he got a family and they got a child. And and truly, like that was joyous. And we said, that's okay, we can wait. And we waited five months before we heard back for the next child. It was a long, I remember emailing them like, are we still on your list? Are we still gone at the bottom of a pile? And they kept assuring us, no, no, no, you're there. We know, we know, we're so sorry. And they really want us to get a child too. They're not trying to do anything unfair. But five months, and then we saw another file. Um, and we said, Yes, uh, we would love to pursue this child. So again, they said. Probably be about four weeks. It was 13 weeks this time. And it was another no. Um, and we don't know why they said the other family has one advantage to us, and that could be they have less children than us, they make a tiny bit more money, they could live closer to a hospital, any number of things. They have one advantage that we didn't have. Um, so now we're back to waiting. And I we call it the black hole of waiting because it could be a day, it could be five months, it could be a year. Um, so that's just kind of where we're at. Um, so it's sometimes it's easy and sometimes it's really hard.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:37

Um, when I guess how long ago was your home study officially approved for Hong Kong? So how long has Um It's been 11 months since it's been approved. And what's like the average?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:52

Do they have an average estimate of um I think it's I think it's like six months that you're supposed to be six to twelve months until you get a match. Um and the matches it's not when we see the child, it's when Hong Kong approves you. So we're 11 months in this six to twelve months, then we are we won't have a match by 12 months. It just won't happen. So yeah, it's a it's a bit of a wait. And we're we're having to redo our paperwork now because it's been so long, and so we have to, you know, re-up all of our qualifications, I suppose.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:34

Yeah, yeah, that's so hard. I feel like it's so hard just like waiting and waiting and not knowing if there is an end or when the end is going to happen. Um, I guess in this season of waiting, and you kind of touched a little bit like emotionally, kind of how it's been for you, just like having to guard your heart. Um, I guess what have you learned about yourself spiritually, or how do you feel like the Lord is testing you or kind of shaping you spiritually? Um, and and emotionally, if there's any other ways other than just guarding your heart.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:08

Um, I like that you use the word shaping because I very much feel like this season has been molding me. Um it I even just said today earlier, my husband and I were talking about it, and I said, my faith is 10 times stronger than it was two years ago. And, you know, there have been really joyous times in this. It's fun to look forward to, and it is fun to have um people excited about this, and any little step forward feels good, and that's it's really neat. Um, but there are other times where oof, you have to make a hard decision or you get told no again, and it can get really hard. And I remember, oh gosh, now it's been like eight months. Uh we had a friend, or our friends had a baby, and another couple friends found out they were pregnant, and I don't want a baby, I don't want to be pregnant. However, and that's so great for them. And I love them for them. I I there's not like a jealousy that I wish I had that. But you know, you do battle thoughts of I have been actively trying for this adoption for years longer than those babies were even a thought. And it's so great for them. And I don't not want them to have those things, but you do have to battle and then pray over those thoughts and say, Whoa, Lord, how do I glorify you in this? Because in this moment I feel sad for myself, uh, happy for them. Or, you know, there's times where, hey, there's this child and like the last kiddo that we were kind of pursuing, they came back to us in the middle of our wait and said, It looks like his needs are significantly harder than what we originally thought. Do you still want to adopt? And even just that, how do we not? We already promised that we would adopt this child if we're chosen, and now you're putting this decision on us to potentially not, and then you have like a moral and ethical trial, and it's and there's just they're hard decisions, and you I don't know, I've had moments where I've literally just on my knees weeping, like God, this is a valley, and this is, I just don't know what is happening and where are you? But then God's like, here I am in the valley, and he every time has answered those prayers and has drawn near. And whether it's through a spontaneous text from a friend saying, Hey, I'm praying for you, I just want you to know in that moment, or a song that comes on, or um I'll open up scripture and a a psalm from David will come up and I'll be like, Oh, David, David, if he can, if he can do this in a cave and he's being hunted and his life is hard. I I can find God here in this place where I am infinitely blessed. I'm just waiting on this one thing. But God has drawn so near. I I really think that if we if we do get to adopt at the end of this journey, I will look back at the really, really hard moments and I will be so grateful for them and I will miss them. Uh, and I know if we do adopt, I'll have more hard moments in different ways. It just will be. But God has shown that he is near and he hears me. Um, and he has been so tender in those times that it's my faith is has gone leaps and bounds. And I I mean, a specific thing that I can think of is a year ago, I remember thinking like we are supposed to have hearts that are willing to sacrifice anything for God. I'm like, I do, except for some things, like my children, for example, or like this house that we bought to adopt in, or just things. Um, and I remember it wasn't long ago, maybe a few months ago. I just after valleys and and you know, peak mountaintop moments too, um, which somehow can exist in the wait mountaintop moments. Um I just remember being in a prayer and be like, God, I I will surrender all of this to you. It is all yours. Uh, you can have this adoption, you can have my four children, you can have any of the home we wanted, you can have our comforts, and it's all to you. I really do just want to glorify you. And that only comes through prayer, but it also only comes through God answering those prayers. And he did, and he has been so faithful to me that I'm like, yeah, you can have anything you want, God. I wasn't there a year ago. I couldn't have sacrificed things a year ago, but I I feel that now. And if the worst could happen, and I my faith would not be shaken.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:15

That's so good. I I don't love this the name like waiting season, and like just like what you said, instead of like a waiting season, I always like it's a preparation season. Um, and like the Lord is preparing you for something, and we don't know, like maybe it's a child on the other end, or maybe something different, or something other things he has planned for you. But it's like the things that you've learned right now that you just said, like you wouldn't have been able to do this a year ago. Um, because he's preparing you and preparing your heart, preparing you emotionally, spiritually, teaching you all of these things of how to wait on him and literally give it everything, not just this, this, and this, but everything to him is like him preparing you. And it reminds me of I love the story of Esther because it's one of the only books in the Bible. It's the only book in the Bible where the Lord is not mentioned once, but it's so evidently clear, like reading through it. Like I'm shocked every time I get through, I'm like, how is the Lord not mentioned in that? Because it's so clear that he's through the whole story.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:23

Yeah, he's working.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:24

Yes, and he's behind the curtains and everything. But Esther was in like a waiting season where she had to go through years of preparing her beauty basically before she even saw the king and didn't even know if this preparation was worth it, if she was gonna even be chosen. But the Lord is preparing her, and in that season of waiting, um, prep and preparing, she was able to gain favor with the eunuchs. Um, and because she was able to gain favor at the eunuchs, eunuchs put a good word in for her and was able to give her a special treatment that helped her stand out. And because she gained favor, she was able to be in a position where she became queen. And then the Lord used her in that position. Um, and so like that whole waiting season, where she's like, is this worth it? I'm I was taken from my home from my family to get prepared. Like now she's in a place the Lord prepared her to literally save a nation. Um, and so yeah, I just like always think, okay, yes, it's horrible being in a waiting season. Lord, show me how you're preparing me or help me not waste. Because I feel like when we say it's a waiting season, it's like, oh, it's wasted. Like, I'm just gonna waste away in this season of waiting until the next thing comes. But then change that mindset, like, how can you prepare me? Or what are you preparing me for? And just like, you I love like that is just giving it all, like, okay, God, like I give it all, and it's like it's hard. Um, and I love your story because it's different from everyone on the podcast where they've been on the other side and they've seen the fruit of God, and right now you're just blind trust and blind faith. Um, so I guess one thing just like how is this journey kind of shaped your understanding of God's plan for your life?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:19

Oh, um I have no understanding of God's plan for my life. Honestly, and and maybe that's what it's done for me, is it has broken down walls that I didn't know were up that I think are human and probably a bit cultural. Uh just you know, American dream of and and the American dream is really just like whatever we want, we go get and we can have. And that's not how God operates. And uh one of my favorite scriptures is Romans 11, 33 through 36, isn't oh, the depths of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God, how unsearchable are his judgments and his paths beyond tracing out. Um, that wasn't the whole phrase, but that was the beginning of it. And the mystery of God is one of my favorite things. I say it all the time. I love his mystery. Uh, he can do what he wants, but he also does infinitely more and bigger and deeper things than we could ever even design. We have no idea what he's doing. And maybe the point is not for me to adopt. Maybe the point is that I can minister to someone who isn't ever going to adopt later. Yeah. In faith. And, you know, I or maybe it's just that I would glorify him now. You know, I I love that you cling to Esther because I know that I know you've preached on Esther before. I know you love her story. Um, I love the book of Philippians. I like a lot of books, but um Paul writes that book, which is so full of joy, he writes it from prison. And you know, his his plan was to go to Rome and preach the gospel to Rome. Well, then he gets arrested and he's put in jail and he is on house arrest and he's uh handcuffed to a guard. And so he just preaches to the guard. And he's like, I I wanted to preach to the city, but I'm gonna preach to this guy. And he he didn't even look at it as a what what am I gonna do next? He's like, Well, right here, this is what I'm gonna do because this is how I could glorify God in this moment. And doing that, he had joy, even though he was in prison. And so it's like, well, I I don't, I'm not in prison, I'm not comparing that, but I there is joy here, and there is something now that I can do for God. And if if the only thing I can do for God is give him my heart and submit myself, and it's not even outward to the world, well, that still glorifies him. And that's maybe where it just starts.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:02

Um even if it's for the one person that you your story will touch, like it's worth it. Yeah, yes, I know his plans are just infinitely more than we could ever imagine. And I would rather put my future in his hands where he knows all things, versus me, I can only know so far ahead, not even like just the present. But it's hard when we don't know because we want answers now. Um, so as we close this podcast, I guess since you're kind of walking through it now, if someone listening today feels like they're in a long season of waiting or wondering what God is doing, they feel like God is distant or not working or moving, um, what encouragement would you want to leave them with?

SPEAKER_02 1:19:50

Well, I just I do like to keep encouraging people to draw near to God because scriptures do say, like, if you draw near to him, he will draw near to you. Um, but I also think like, what do you need to submit to him? Is it the dream? Is it is it the ideal future you had for yourself? Is it just what walls do you have up? Which doesn't feel like an encouragement, but if it brings us to God, it is, you know, conviction is always a good thing. And so I'm always like, well, what what do we need to give to God? Because if we want to see what he's gonna do in us or for us, we have to submit to that. Yeah, you know, it's not always just exactly what we've designed. Um, and I am saying that from experience. I I know what it is to dream and to want. Um, and in so far not getting some of that, I have seen just so much goodness come from God. Um, so just if someone's waiting, like I hope you get what you're waiting for, but if you don't, God has something better for you, but you probably have access to that now because God is now available, you know? Yeah, He doesn't wait to draw near. Um, and yeah, so I just keep praying and seeking God. I will say, when I'm really struggling with moments of despair, and that might be too dramatic of a word, um, or confusion, or just woe is me, uh, you know, you have to submit those thoughts to the Lord. And when I stop and uh pray thanksgiving to God and I recount what he has done, uh I think my perspective changes almost immediately to to be gospel centered and oh, he has saved my soul. If I get nothing else, I'm getting all the glory of God someday. And that is a good thing. So I just think that if there's a really tangible thing we can do, thank God for things. That that will change our hearts in big ways and in quick ways, I think, as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:12

Well, that's so good. Well, thank you so much for joining us and being vulnerable and sharing your story. I'm sure it'll touch more than just one person. Um, and you have a ton of prayer warriors who are praying for you in this season of waiting. So thank you, Fanny.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:26

Thank you.